Lee, Here in a Virtual World: storm

Showing posts with label storm. Show all posts

Tuesday, February 14, 2012

Wanted: Debaters for the Affirmative

Resolution: Pep and Storm are inappropriately, excessively and unnecessarily rude, offensive and mean to other Second Life residents and forum and feed posters. Pep and Storm are not funny. They are sometimes hyperemotional. They use sockpuppets. They should stop.

Affirmative: Eloise and...you?

Negative: Pep and Storm

http://leeherevw.blogspot.com/2012/02/not-arguing-about-pep-and-storm.html
http://thearchivisthere.blogspot.com/2012/02/defining-our-terms.html

ETA;
Please, no flaming or histrionics. This is a serious request for a serious question. Plenty of room to fight bare knuckles elsewhere. This is intended to be a rational and reasonable debate among adults. Thank you.

ETA:
No really. Oh, c'mon.

Monday, February 13, 2012

(Not) Arguing About Pep and Storm

I'm going to borrow terms from debate for this post. There is, after all, a long running debate playing out across the Second Life related forums, feeds, blogs and sims.

Resolution: Pep and Storm are inappropriately, excessively and unnecessarily rude, offensive and mean to other residents and forum and feed posters. Pep and Storm are not funny. They are sometimes hyperemotional. They use sockpuppets. They should stop.

Affirmative: Eloise and ~~Steampunk~~

Negative: Pep and Storm

This is a summary of one small part of the debate. You can read the full transcript here.

Storm states a premise. "I have over 50 posts to SLF with my alt. Not ONE has been returned (RIC'd, or moderated.) The conclusion I draw is that people RIC the poster and not the post. I would like to add that in the last 6 months over 25% of my posts as Storm have been RIC'd. Prior to the last 6 months I have 5000+ posts without a removal."

Venus states one: "Another conclusion is that mods do not read/review for context. A lethal combination."

Steampunk Gears questions the premises.

Pep questions Steampunk.

Eloise questions the premises and adds evidence by way of a testimony about RICing one of Storms' forum posts.

Storm acknowledges Eloise's evidence and point.

Zinnia affirms the posters.

Pep makes a joke.

Perrie Juran makes an observation and a joke.

Dres makes a joke.

Perrie makes a joke.

curiousaboutsl interrupts the discussion to ask technical questions about the Feed.

People reply to curiousaboutsl. Lee and Venus take it off Storm's feed and answer curiousaboutsl in more detail on curiousaboutsl's feed.

Zinnia disaffirms Pep. Zinnia uses her own judgment about Pep's joke and decides it is not funny and that it is offensive, and therefore not so much a joke as an actual accusation. Zinnia affirms herself.

curiousaboutsl makes an ironic comment and asks more questions.

Steampunk Gears makes incorrect assertions.

Eloise makes an assertion that she is pretty sure Pep is a troll.

Storm asserts that Steampunk Gears is clueless.

Lee introduces Steampunk and curiousaboutsl to each other.

Storm introduces cocktails.

Lee makes an observation about Steampunk's general posting style.

Lee and Storm discuss the Forum Confidential blog and John Updike.

Pep affirms his virtual identity and makes more jokes.

Zinnia describes her own observations of Pep, criticizes Pep and makes the request that he "be nice."

Steampunk Gears states a premise, that Pep bullies, intimidates, humiliates, harasses and trolls and does not employ humor correctly. This makes the second "Pep is a troll" assertion in the discussion. (Steampunk and Eloise)

Steampunk also predicts punitive reactions from Linden Lab towards Pep.

Steampunk then implies that the discussion Lee and Storm had about Forum Confidential was a threat and would have been a violation of the ToS if the Feeds were moderated by the Lindens. He then makes assertions about the entertainment value of Forum Confidential.

Steampunk then makes more assertions about Pep claiming that he has "hidden like a coward," lied and cheated and wasted time and trolled. Although this remains the second "troll" premise as Steampunk made it before. So we still have a count of Eloise and Steampunk asserting that Pep is a troll.

Steampunk makes the extremely difficult to support assertion that no one wants to listen to Pep and no one cares about what Pep has to say. (More likely a typical neener-neener dig than an actual assertion.)

Steampunk then tells, presumably Pep, to "fuck off."

Pep says he has written a rebuttal to Steampunk on his (Pep's) feed.

Pep asserts that everyone is a little bad, he's just better at being bad.

Dres employs sarcasm.

Pep asks clarifying questions (about which blogs are being discussed).

Amethyst Gears asserts that Pep makes insults that belittle his opponents and suggests they are illiterate.

Pep asserts that he does not suggest his opponents are illiterate, he merely points it out when they are illiterate.

Eloise asserts that Pep claims his opponents are ESLers, uneducated, stupid and hyperemotional with no grasp of their intentions when they post.

Eloise states a premise couched as an observation: "You're mean, pure and simple. I can be mean, we all can, but you do it for what seems like a living. I make no judgement. I simply observe." She also asserts that Pep picks on others while Storm does not.

Eloise asserts that she sees Storm as posting in a manner similar to how Pep's posts to his opponents has been described. She adds that "others" see Storm as the "epitome of a hyperemotional response."

Storm states that he is "in it for the drama" having failed at comedy.

Storm makes the extremely difficult to support assertion that he posts without emotion.

Eloise asserts that Storm and Pep are mean to others, but do not allow anyone to respond in kind or to be mean to them in any way or degree. She asserts that this observed stance does not make sense.

Eloise states that she is aware of both sides of "this argument." She asserts that she is not affiliated to either camp. She positions herself as being against the mean posts of Pep and the hyperemotional posts of Storm and the stance both take with regard to how they make and receive posts.

Storm asserts that he is not affiliated with any camp.

Eloise asserts, via a question, that Storm is defending a camp or stance, with an added implication that Storm is defending Pep.

Eloise asserts that Pep "stirs up trouble" for others including Storm.

Eloise says she bites bait and the trolls bite her.

Storm states that he finds Pep to be humorous and entertaining.

Eloise asserts that neither Pep nor Storm are funny, though both are entertaining and "drama queens." She states they are "scarily, obsessively mean" and that both have been banned from the forums, implying this supports the argument that Pep and Storm are mean.

Eloise and Storm parse the argument that either (or both) alts or sockpuppets are bad.

Storm asserts that his SL Forum ban was for questioning moderation, not for his posts in general.

Eloise asserts that Storm was banned for a sustained offensive.

Eloise asserts that some of the posters are reinforcing the idea "that when Pep misbehaves you all encourage him."

Dres makes comments about the SL Forum moderation.

Lee makes sidebar comments.

Dres asserts that Eloise has some valid points in a reasonable manner. Lee agrees.

Eloise affirms Dres.

Storm asserts that the responses to Eloise have been reasonable as well.

Eloise makes a joke and then returns to what she sees as the point, "is what Pep does acceptable? Not to me. Not today, or ever and while people defend his behaviour...on your heads be it when you want SL to listen to you."

Storm responds, "The point was the OP, not your point Eloise."

Eloise and Storm both make the near-indefensible claim that they were not arguing with anyone or at all.

Venus explains her prior comment was a joke.

Dres states that Pep is an asshole, but Dres still finds reasons to like Pep.

Steampunk makes an attempt to get Lee's attention, but once again gets the facts wrong in the attempt.

Steampunk asserts that there is a type of observer that relishes in the misery Pep and Storm dish out to other residents and supports what Pep and Storm say regardless of how far Pep and Storm take their comments. Steampunk offers no evidence to support his assertions.

Eloise states that she realizes she will never win peace on the forums or feeds, but she seems to suggest she'll have a good time trying.

Lee observes people making judgment calls on jokes again.

Venus asserts that jokes are like pornography. "Jokes are like pron. I know it when I see it."

Lee asserts that she is "lightening the mood a little, giving encouragement, responding in a polite and rational manner."

Lee suggests that she sees stating one's point in the context of continuous back-and-forth opposing commentary to be "an argument."

Dres affirms Lee. Lee affirms Dres.

Storm suggests the "argument" is merely a "dance."

Storms says he is a "drama ho" and implies that he aims to please.

Venus states that she flashed her boobs.

Eloise attempts to claim, somewhat ironically, that she is not making assertions. "I'm not making assertions Lee. I'm responding to the way that others post. I'm explicitly referring to the way that Pep posts and the responses his posts garner. I have no view on anything other than how rude Pep's posts are and how quickly the same few posters come in to defend his behaviour. Whatever you think of me, I would never be that incredibly rude. I would never condone that behaviour and I remain surprised by those who do."

Lee suggests it may be time to define our terms.

Venus brings up the old hotbutton of the question of interpretting "condoning behavior" and "silence" and "loves."

Dres reasserts that Pep can be an asshole and that he does not condone that behavior and that there is more to Pep than that.

Colleen peeks her head in to make a quick joke.

Venus and Dres wink and hug.

/end summary

https://my.secondlife.com/storm.clarence/posts/4f371b461cbccc00010004a5

You may judge this section of the debate in the comments section below or in the applicable feed. There are actually numerous premises and assertions stated in that discussion. I chose the main one, despite it not actually being the subject of the OP. Please feel free to comment on any of the resolutions, premises or assertions that you observed in the feed discussion.

Thank you.

p.s.
To be perfectly clear...I am NOT making any digs at Eloise who I thought handled herself quite well in the feed discussion. I mean to be respectful and not disrespectful to Eloise. There is no snark there. I posted this because I am interested in framing the age-old topic of Pep, Storm (and the Fuckwads before them) as a debate, rather than a flamefest or tantrum or random drive-by shootings.

p.p.s.
Do I need to explain that "Resolution" does not mean that I have personally resolved that statement as a fact? It's a debate term. It means that statement represents the main point of the argument now open to being discussed and debated by both sides (affirmative and negative).

ETA & Update:
Steampunk has dropped out. We need more champions for the affirmative.

https://my.secondlife.com/steampunk.gears

ETA:
I've updated the "Defining Our Terms" blog post.

ETA:
More related links.

https://my.secondlife.com/leehere.absent/posts/4f3a955eddd72700010028cf
https://my.secondlife.com/leehere.absent/posts/4f3a96186d81490001003170
https://my.secondlife.com/leehere.absent/posts/4f39f13339cec50001000d0e
https://my.secondlife.com/storm.clarence/posts/4f371b461cbccc00010004a5

Sunday, September 4, 2011

SLFucked Again

Okay, what did I do wrong this time?

I tried to reply to SL8995's "know where i can purchase RL second life items" thread (I have often wanted a real-life version of Senjata Witt's concert T), but when I hit the reply button, either of them, I get bumped out of the thread. So what's up?

I swear I've been able to pull off a SLF reply before. What am I doing wrong this time?

Hitting "Reply" takes me to this screen:

I don't see anything to indicate that the thread has been locked or that my posting ability has been hobbled. Glitch? Temporary insanity? Brain fart?

Apologies to Storm, but I can't post freely, can't use "adult" language or discuss "adult" themes and the functionality of the SLF forum, no matter which version, has always been so bloody frustrating and, and, and...well, that's why you don't see me there very often. (Good tips for those who want me off their forums, btw. ;) Hey, it worked for SLO.)

Oh, and this is the shirt I want in real.

Links:
http://secondlife.lithium.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/know-where-i-can-purchase-RL-second-life-items/td-p/1069567
http://secondlife.lithium.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/459465
http://www.rletc.com/showthread.php?2925-Second-Life-Blogorums

ETA: Shit, did I become a "male" when they revamped the forums? That's what the little blue man means, yes? That's the default? So now I have to go back in and fix my gender? Aargh. At least I finally noticed the damn thing.

ETA2: Alright, damn it, where do you change the little blue "M" man? I'm clicking through all the "Preferences" and "Settings" and not seeing it yet.

ETA3: Oh. It means I'm a "member." I remember getting the e-mail announcing that. I thought getting an email telling me I was a member after all this time was a bit...well, anyway, I think I even commented on it here in my blog somewhere. A little blue M man...really?

ETA4: What are the colors and symbols for the rest of the levels? Is there a handy chart?

ETA5: Oh ffs. I think I figured out the replying problem. Depending on which link I click the site "sees" me as either logged in or not logged in and since I was logged in I didn't notice the difference and didn't immediately think to check ('cuz I'm so used to the bloody aggravation of SLF!) when I clicked around. Let me try that again.

ETA6: Yup. That was it. Depending on how I get in there, it either recognizes me as logged in or it doesn't and if I click on "Sign in" it doesn't actually ask me to sign in, it just changes my status to already signed in and lets me reply.

ETA7: And a "General Discussion" in each section? And a borked "Search" that I have to help like a toddler crossing the road? Argh. I'm in danger of another SLF rant. I'm so spoiled by other sites. Must...stay...away...from...SLF.

ETA8: 'Course, it could just be the day I'm having.

ETA9: Squealing and showering affection on Storm for this.

Storm said...

"This is the best I could do Lee:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Forums-Feedback/Crimes-against-convention/m-p/1082813/message-uid/1082813#U1082813"

Crimes against convention

Storm Clarence said...

"I was made aware of this issue from a friend and I, too, attempted to post to this OP and can not. Is the lithium software censoring/moderating our replies, too?"

ETA10:

I'm lovin' Storm's current siggy. ;)

Friday, August 12, 2011

gV Drama...It started with a little thread about desktop images. (Part II)

Here's an update on the "What Computer Desktop Image Do You Use?" thread on gV.

A new poster personality, Rudolph Ukka, made an appearance on gV (SLF and FC too) and caused some alt hunting, natch, before one of the planets orbited him.

Rudi said:

"I saw this fucking thread written about in LeeHeres blog so I singed up to come and say that you are a bunch of fucking pussywhipped morons leading a fucking wimp of a fucking owner by the nose becuase Immy has not been proved to break any laws not even the rules of this fucking forum. Immy has got an infraction becuase she did something against the kultur of this forum or at least the kultur of the most vocal fucking morons here. You suggest that fucking Lucifer over in fucking SCII has stated that cartoon lolis are illegal in his country but you dont even know what fucking country he lives in. Is it Ireland England or fucking Scotland. And what are you going to do if I tell you that fucking lolcatz are fucking illegal in fucking Tristan Da Cunha? Does that mean that you all have to promise to stop posting fucking pictures of fucking lolcatz or even links to sites that have fucking lolcatz. And get rid of all the fucking posts in this forum that have fucking lolcatz in them. Rudi"

Charming, eh?

Lias responded:

"LeeHere has a blog? How frightening."

Pep said on FC:

"Pep (is surprised Rudi's posts are still up in the official forum; are the mods there confused about whether his posts have already been moderated?)"

Which is all the more humorous both if you know the current moderation practices on SLF and if you've seen Rudi's posts there.

colleen was accused of Donning the thread (as in posting like Don Mills, not actually wearing the thread).

A discussion about the merits of the individual sartorial styles of both colleen and Lias ensued nonetheless.

A discussion about the merits and significance of high post and like counts ensued.

Storm entered the fray and stirred things up managing to both publicize FC and draw Jolene's rapt attention in the process, which inevitably led to a rehash of the Seicher Rae-Ima-Willem brouhaha on FC and even a little of the Jolene-Jumpman-Wasted debacle and many more posts and pages. Lain's Larry was mentioned. Fuckwad too. Even Gnat was invoked. Scylla too, natch. And of course, the more current drama surrounding the rumor that the Ts are, in fact, our own Storm and Venus. Ima finally sorted out her password problems and jumped into the mud with everyone else. If you haven't posted or been mentioned in this thread yet, you might want to call your publicist.

Storm said:

"FORUM CONFIDENTIAL killed Mulch. Stayed tune for details."

Storm said:

"I have a question for this forum, or anybody who is reading this thread: how many alts do you think it will take to put out the fire that Jolene started on this thread? I say 4."

Jolene said:

"I just vehemently will fight his little games to get his blog posted anywhere."

LeeHere said:

"Well, I guess Storm is the Donnie Deutsch Trump of the SL-circuit then. I want to see a reality machinima next."

colleen said:

"I do see, but .....just like IRL The Enquirer ....wants to know. Headlines gotta come from somewhere. huh"

nina weighed in on Immy's links.

"i dont have much of an issue with the link personally
that being said, it could be interpreted as a violation of the community standards, so mercury was right to infract imo."

nina finally got around to asking colleen and Lias about their falling out.

"i must have missed something...
i thought you two were mates?"

LeeHere said:

"Jeebus, but you are behind. Still not reading your own forum?"

nina said:

"i am aware that they havent gotten on for a while now, but this is the first i have asked about it."

Bladyblue (Lias) made an appearance.

Mitch threw spaghetti at the wall.

Mary and I reminisced about my Candy Tetris quest.

GradyE bucked the thread trend and posted a desktop image with a subtle little plug for Mulch's new Feted Inner Hangout forum. I've already been instructed not to call it "fetid."

[IMG]

colleen may have summed up the thread best when she said:

"Christ its like a nightmare that never ends."

Links:
http://direct.gotvirtual.net/community/threads/what-computer-desktop-image-do-you-use.2342/page-16
http://leeherevw.blogspot.com/2011/08/gv-dramait-started-with-little-thread.html
http://slconfidential.blogspot.com/2011/08/newbie-troll-of-week-rudolph-ukka.html
http://slconfidential.blogspot.com/2011/08/gv-in-uproar-over-immy-images.html
http://slconfidential.blogspot.com/
http://fetedinnerhorde.com/forums/

Oh, and Harvey wants y'all to see this.

ETA: Isakk Hunt has joined us on gV.

Tuesday, August 9, 2011

gV Drama...It started with a little thread about desktop images.

This is the OP.

Lias said:

"I like a dark screen image that's not too busy."

And she included this picture.

[IMG]

So far, so good.

Kita posted links to hers.

Tarzan posted this.

"I have had this one since even before she was famous."

Post #4, Immy posts this.

"Can't. It'll probably get me banned. =^-^="

This is where I imagine veterans of SC MKII, SLU and the SL blogorums roll their eyes, groan and push flashbacks of old threads out of their heads. Non-veterans or the unfamiliar might be doing a combination of "uh oh" and "what?" Regardless, anyone reading that one line knows it's the beginning.

Couple more posts about desktop images. People ignoring the bait. Here comes more chum.

Immy wades back in and on post #9 contributes a post that has since been edited, debated, defended and derided multiple times with no end currently in sight. [Warning: Think twice about clicking the links (here and below). Immy likes controversial lolicon images and tends to post from the full continuum with the qualifier that one end of the continuum is her wheelhouse and the other end of the continuum is what a minority of other people enjoy, but, ya know, check it out or something.]

"I'll do it this way: #ECCHI# http://darkly-cute.com/images/Desktop 110807.jpg #ECCHI# open at your own risk. =^-^=

It's a dual-screen set up and I make a big enough image to span both, each with its own scene. Set to tile and it fits perfectly. (^_^)y

Oh, I can show off my workplace desktop..."

"Ain't I the narcissist? =^-^="

"WARNING** This site goes even beyond ~MY~ boundaries -- Lolibooru <link broken by me - see explanation below>

But, anyway. (^_^)y"

"#1 rule of online safety: Unless you're clearly aware that you're directly seeking that which is behind the link, DON'T CLICK THE LINK!"

"Blind rage is entertaining."

More postings of desktop images and then post # 19.

Lain (is Bams) said:

"Linking to pornographic images of children isn't exactly above board with the rules, now is it?

It's clearly material we have outlined as inappropriate for posting, I don't see a link to the material as much different, and I'm pretty sure the laws will fall in that direction as well.

I, for one, would appreciate you having more tact and respect and keeping this filth to yourself in the future.

Thanks in advance."

Aaaand we're off to the races.

Here's a quick bullet summary:

Immy posted links to potentially illegal pornographic images thereby endangering both the site and the members who might have clicked on the second link.
Immy posted links and not images and members were not compelled to click the links.
Members weren't warned either.
The pictures are of drawings, not actual people. No one was harmed in the making of them.
The pictures are illegal in some countries and offensive to many people.
The gV community standards say "child pornography or the sexualisation of a child, real or not, is explicitly forbidden" and no shock gore either and we agreed not to put the site in legal jeopardy.
Immy is trolling. Again.
Immy is a hero for being open, honest and vulnerable and exercising such great restraint.
Immy is just posting.
Immy thinks the pics are cute and on-topic. She also thinks they express joy, freedom and liberation.
Immy objects to her favorite form of art being characterized as filth.
Immy hates being an adult, but is forced into it in real and virtual lives.
Immy is a married middle-aged man with a compulsion to post lolicon pics, seek attention and cause drama.
Immy is like a flasher on a subway.
Lias is old enough to be Immy's mother.
Lias sounds like colleen's mother.
Lias is accused of harping.
Tarzan tells Lias to "shut up."
Immy wants a cat.
Someone shoots a confidential email to PETA.
People state and quote laws and rules and so forth. Jurisdictions are discussed.
People tell each other they are wrong.
People accuse each other of net nannying.
Everyone is just expressing opinions as they have a right to do.
Immy wants to know why, if these images are illegal as so many people are telling her, are they still up and why have they been up for years?
What Immy actually knows or doesn't know is debated.
People are clutching pearls and being provincial and fussy.
People are just asking Immy to respect the wishes of the community members.
Lain (is Bams) does a pseudo-flounce.
Lain (is Bams) returns for a quick summary and chastisement.
Lain (is Bams) CoCos the thread.
Lain (is Bams) Godwins the thread.
Tarzan Godwins the thread with more Freud.
Mary invokes the Archivist.
Everybody else invokes Wasted.
Another image is posted for comparison and discussion purposes.
Storm tells everyone he has a picture of Lias on his desktop (clearly baiting Orfeu who posted a pic early on and buggered off before the drama fired up.)
Bunnie supplies the thread memes: pilgrims and reruns.
Jolene provides an updated summary on page 14.
Lias provides the first list of the thread.
Kick interprets and mediates.
I get slaphappy.
A planet gives out infraction points.
Lurkers either mentally slit their wrists or eagerly refresh for more.